I only wanted ostriches.

[melissajm]

I'll be honest; all this "Writing the Other" controversy is making me hesitant to write at all! At least in my current WIP. I set it in an "Africanish" fantasy world because I wanted to have ostriches in it, so I needed a climate where they lived. Now I'm finding myself second-guessing everything for fear that someone with think I'm being racist/insensitive/ignorant/all of the above.

Of course I'm racist, and sexist, and whatever -ists apply, at least by one definition. My perceptions are all colored through the view of a white, female, Northeastern US living 40-something Special-Ed schooled bookish... Ok, this could go on until we run out of applicable adjectives. Anyway, the point is that we all have only one POV. We're obligated to realize that everyone else has a different POV. And if we don't want to hurt each other, we do our imperfect human best to understand where other people are coming from.

I write Fantasy and SF because I like the freedom to imagine worlds and populate them with all kinds of characters. I don't want to create a million paper suburbs filled with clones of me. I'm not that exciting, or that important. I want to create forests and deserts and cities and afterlives, castles and caves and homes of all kinds. I want to fill my worlds with men and women of all sizes, shapes and colors (plus imps, serpent-demons, mermaids...)

So how do I do this and say "Welcome to my made-up world. I've made it from what I am and what I know, what I've experienced and what I've learned, all reflected back in words. It's not the same as anybody else's world real or fictional, because no two people live the same life.

If my reflection of you, or your world, or parts of it is wrong because my mirror is too small or dusty with ignorance to show a true image, please don't assume I'm using a mocking funhouse mirror on purpose. Help me to clarify the image. We all know our own worlds the most intimately. But if we take "write what we know" literally, and only write about our own little corner of the universe, we defeat the whole purpose of speculative fiction.

A person's first steps into a new environment will usually be halting and imperfect. Writing is the same way. The more I think about this, the more I think that the best an author can do is to learn as much as they can about people and places similar to their made-up ones, treat their characters like real people, and remember that somebody else always has a bigger, clearer mirror and no one ever captures the whole true image.

What do you think? How can writers explore their imaginations without poking at real-world people?

Comments

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

I think you write the very best book you can and do the best job you can in terms of research and avoiding cliches. Then you stop worrying.

The fact you worry about this tells me that you're thinking and that is half the battle.

Ostriches are a good thing to have in a book.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

This is just a short story, actually. And the ostriches used to be people. It's complicated.
But it's fun! ;)

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

Ostriches are good in short stories too. *g* And having fun is the best part of writing.

I'm gonna be crass, in a good way

[yourbob.livejournal.com]

Don't flippin' overworry about "writing the other."

Write what you want, how you want, to tell the story you want to tell.

Shakespeare was never a Queen, King, Moor, Gentleman of Verona, or Jewish Banker, let alone a Wizard or a Scottish Ghost. He did okay.

Go ahead. Write.

Re: I'm gonna be crass, in a good way

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I needed that. ;)

And yeah, technically Yama's "Other" than me. But she's Yama first, and I like her, and I think her story's worth telling.

(If I only knew how it goes!)

[marshall-payne.livejournal.com]

Yes, don't worry about it. Some people like to make noise on the Internez. Save them from having to use their imagination and write something different. It sounds like that's what you're doing, writing something different, I mean. *g*

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Well, right now I'm just glad I'm writing! I've had trouble finishing things lately, for some reason.

[marshall-payne.livejournal.com]

I've had trouble finishing things lately, for some reason.

Me too on short stories. So that's why I'm back to novel-writing. Writing's fun again!

[katallen.livejournal.com]

::loves ostriches::

Well for second world I can entirely use my imagination, but being careful that it is all imagination and not upwellings of stereotypes from movies or charity organisations or the news. Making the characters true to themselves. Or else do that plus trying to find their stories and whatever details can help me make good fictional characters that have some real-world truth to them as well.

Anyhow, pretty much every character I write is the other because I make a poor fictional person (and I don't write because I want to write books with character like me in them). So I do what seems like enough, try to avoid being unfair, and cross my fingers for luck.

[And if you do create interesting individuals you'll not escape people saying things like 'a man wouldn't notice what the flowers were' or 'a girl would be reluctant to get her hands dirty' :)]

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

I suppose referring to someone as "a whatever" is a good warning sign. (Unless another character who's supposed to be ignorant says it.)

[katallen.livejournal.com]

True.

(I'm kind of hoping you haven't read 'whatever details' as refering to people rather than to the details one discovers or finds helpful...)

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Of course. People are more than just details.

[katallen.livejournal.com]

*grins* looks like the current climate of misunderstanding is making me nervous.

People are more than details, but it's amazing how the right details can make a character feel real or individual. Like the difference between a wooden door and a carved mahogany door with a chased brass knob :)

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I even worried that people wouldn't like Yama's hairdo. (Many braids with colored beads in them. Keeps her hair out of her face when the pseudo-ostrich is going full tilt, and indicates her rank among the Riders.)

But like you said, relevant details make the character.

[amysisson.livejournal.com]

I guess my feeling is that you try your best to avoid the damaging cliches that are out there.

I think that's about all we can do.

In light of recent discussion, I'm surprised I haven't had any backlash about my Chinese afterlife marriage ghost story, but I guess not many Chinese readers have read it. Surely I got things wrong.

(On the other hand, I had an Australian reader tell me that she couldn't believe my Australian story wasn't written by an Australian. So sometimes I guess we get it a little right, maybe more by luck than anything else.)

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

I once got told I got a disabled character wrong, which was funny because that is NOT "Other" to me.

And I once got told I got something right even though I'd never experienced it firsthand, which was wonderful.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

I've been told the same, by able-bodied folks who tried to tell me that it would not be that difficult for the character to cross that particular piece of terrain.

To which I could only reply, "When was the last time you had an immobile leg with limited sensation?"

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Er, actually, you were the one who told me that. ;) (in our very first OWW conversation, when we were working out Anja's level of paralysis.)

And that ultimately led to the formation of Carpe Libris. So talking about "getting it right" is a Good Thing.

[christinenorris.livejournal.com]

Tamora Pierce does an awesome job writing the Other in her Trickster books. She has a whole mixed culture which has some African/Island influences though it's still in her own world. Although the MC is a white girl who's the daugher of a pirate, her 'natives' are three dimensional and treated with dignity. Terrific.

Go, read them now.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

I have one of hers in my TBR stack. I forget which one, but now I hope it's a Trickster book.

[christinenorris.livejournal.com]

PS - I had the same thoughts about writing the Chinese people in my WIP, and using the Chinese mythology. But one of my critique partners said to me "when I read Mei-Li (the Chinese teenager)" I see my Chinese friend Imelda".

That was a great compliment, so I suppose I didn't mangle it too badly.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

That IS nice.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

FWIW, Alexander McCall Smith is white. Of course, he was born in, as he puts it, "what is now Zimbabwe," and moved to Botswana when it became almost impossible to be white in Zimbabwe (or anything other than Shona.)

The key, I think, when you're using a real culture, or one that people are going to associate in their minds with a real culture, is to research that culture. In the case of Africa, of course, you have to remember that there is no one "African culture." Even within a single country, you have several individual cultures with individual identities. That's why so many African countries have issues with tribal warfare still.

I would say, Pick a specific culture that would allow you to have your ostriches and use them in that manner (Basarwa, for example, might ride ostriches?) and research the bejeezus out of the selected culture. Then make your changes along the lines of, "Well, this is another planet and these folks are descended from those folks, but it's been 1500 years..." or whatever.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Well, you know where I've been with this one! Name lists, dictionaries, cookbooks... it actually has a set of research links, like I'd normally use for a novel.

[kara-gnome.livejournal.com]

Oo, ostriches are scary, I really think they are--I wouldn't go near one with a ten-foot pole! Beautiful, of course, beautiful, but you can really see the dinosaur, there, *lurking...*

I'm glad you wrote this. I've been feeling the same way. And then feeling guilty because I don't really care if someone of any culture or color finds his or her way to SF/F; if they don't, it's their loss, just as it's my loss for not finding my way to whatever genre other people enjoy.

They are not my responsibility!

But at the same time, it was a relief to write all my "people" in my most recent story as dogs, goats, and pigs. Hopefully the horses don't feel left out :I Sheesh, it really is hard.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Well, they CAN kill you.

This story actually started because of the time I saw an emu, but I needed them bigger.

I always hope that people can enjoy my stories regardless of where they're coming from. I know it's impossible to please everyone, though, so I just do the best I can.

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

1. Write only people and characters and settings like yourself, or...

2. Explore, and accept that you might screw up and people will be offended and get mad at you.

You listen. You research. When people talk about being offended, you don't argue with them. You listen and when they have valid points, you try to learn and do better. But don't assume that it's everyone else's responsibility to educate you and help you.

::Shrug:: The latter has been the approach I've been trying to take while writing books about people of other genders, races, and sexual orientations. Don't know if any of that's helpful or not, so feel free to take it for whatever it's worth.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

I like #2 better. Good advice.

FWIW, I think the goblins would want to stab you in the back no matter how much research you did. ;)

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

They wouldn't be goblins if they didn't!

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

How have "people who would know" reacted to a certain aspect of a certain princess, BTW? I think she's awesome, but I'm in the dark about that one trait.

(Sheez, trying to avoid spoilers and still make sense is hard!)

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

Most people have liked her. Some have named her their favorite character.

But some people have also pointed out that in some ways she's a stereotype, and they have a valid criticism. She's the most physically aggressive of the three, and given her traumatic awakening... not to mention that her sexual/romantic story in the book was very different than the other two. While the other two got to enjoy their romantic/sexual side, she was left in a fairly hopeless and lonely situation.

They're good points. Some I knew were problematic, but left them in for the sake of the story. Others were things I wish I had been able to address. ("I'll be getting to that in a later book" isn't a good excuse, even if it's true.)

Part of the problem is that she's the only identifiable non-straight character, and as such, she carries more significance. With a wide cast of female characters, Snow's promiscuity works, whereas if she was the only female that could be much more of a problem.

Long answer to a short question, I know. Personally, I think I did a fairly good job with her. I also know I could have done better, and I've taken those criticisms into consideration as I'm working on book three.

She's still my favorite :-)

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

I liked the fact that she was a well-realized character long before that issue came up, so (to me at least) it was just another part of her personality.

It's like a while back, when I worked up the nerve to ask Lois McMaster Bujold how she "did disability so right" with Miles Vorkosigan.
And she wrote back and said "I've never thought of Miles as "disabled." Miles is just...Miles."

And I said "YES!" ;)

Lois is a classy lady.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

But I have goblins, and they'd be very offended by that! They're people too, they'll have you know!

(Actually, the main character of Dark Winter is part goblin, but you'll never get him to admit it, thanks to stereotypes like that!)


This is in response to jimhines, but for some reason, it keeps posting it away down...

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

I think that's very good advice. You can only do the best you can do. You can spend a lot of time second-guessing yourself. Basically, as it comes down to people are people. We all have feelings, we all have hopes and dreams, we all have bodies that grow and change and feel pain. The only time I was so offended by cultural elitism that I put a book down and did not pick it up again was when the author said (I'm paraphrasing here) something to the effect of, "she didn't cry at the death of her father, because among her people, family ties were not important." *Excuse me?!* In fact, the character (a twelve-year old girl, yet) doesn't pause or grieve at all.

The culture in question was Roman-era Britain. Aside from the fact that I do not believe there has been any culture throughout human history in which people feel nothing at the death of a close family member. And since we are talking here about a people who lived in close quarters with relatives, extended family, etc...

It's true, there are going to be people who will be upset if characters are wearing the wrong clothing, or performing the wrong ritual, but as long as you don't have your characters acting inhuman, it's stuff you can fix. For instance, you could say, "Well, yes, Basawra don't do that, but she has a Motswana mother, and learned it from her."

I doubt most of us need to worry about sinking so low that as dad dies, we shrug and walk on.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

That COULD be an interesting character, but the behavior would scream that there's something strange about HER, not her culture.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

That was the problem. The author did not imply that the character was a sociopath, but that it was her culture that made her not react.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Yep. That doesn't work.

[safewrite.livejournal.com]

I think that making sure we do not step in things is part of the time-honored function of our beta readers, don't you?

That is all.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Yes.
Ad if you're particularly worried that something might be offensive, ask one of your beta readers to look at that bit separately and give you feedback.

Some things are obvious and we all know them, other things, less so.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Ok. Brace yourself. ;)

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

braced and ready

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Well, you've got a little time. I still don't know how it ends.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

True.

[jcdrainville.livejournal.com]

As long as you make sure that your characters are human: complex individuals with a multitude of strengths and weaknesses and thoughts... I think you'll do fine. You might not have a complete grasp on a culture and their traditions, but you won't have a cast of stereotypes either.

Write!

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Yes'm. ;)

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

What Omnibob said.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Yes'm. Please put down the keyboard...

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Who me? (looks innocent)