Demonized

[melissajm]

My "serpent-demon novel" has been getting a lot of feedback along the lines of "This is well written, but I'm just not warming to the main character." People either seem to love Malak or hate him, and so far all the agents have come down on the "No Love" side.

Wiser heads than mine have suggested 2 possible instant turnoffs:

1. Serpent-demons, including Malak, eat anything that moves, including people.

2. Readers see "seraphim" and "demon" and assume a religious framework that isn't there, which throws them off.

So, does anyone have a strong reaction to either of those issues? Or suggestions? Thanks!

Comments

[j-cheney.livejournal.com]

Not a good day to ask this if you want many responses....I'd say ask it again after Christmas is past. ;o)

[kara-gnome.livejournal.com]

I'd think, myself, and from not a huge experience with reading novels like this :D, that number 1. would be all right, actually. People have a fascination with being eaten (Jurassic Park), and like that feeling of being victims, mostly. I mean, within limits, but it's a sexy idea, if you see what I mean.

number 2. Yeah, I'm sorry to say. It's why I would be, well, I hope it's okay, but these things are religious. It would be like naming groups the Evangelicals and the Conservatives and then saying, but wait, there's nothing political here at all! (Or Liberals and Left-wingers, just to maintain political balance ;-D)

It's throwing out expectations and then not delivering. Or using words that aren't intended.

Ms. Bear was talking about this the other day, about how she couldn't use bosom in relating to a man, as in the man's bosom. That's waaaay smaller than this, do you think? I've been thinking about that observation, lately, which is why it struck me.

Anyway, as far as suggestions, well, can your seraphims and demons be called something else? I'd use Rogets International and myth books and see if you can find something there. One way that I made up beings was I took random letters: wsofhzug9rginbzoieghdlbnjgeggjhgtuibnlgg, and then looked through them to see if I could use a word. The b'Nlggs, for exmaple, or the Ginbzois :D.

Or not, you know, you'll work it out, no worries.

In the meantime, I'm sorry about the mixed reviews/opinions.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Hm! And I was guessing the eating habits would be the bigger problem. (Sexy? Eww! Not to me! ;))
Funny thing is, I avoided calling them Angels for just that reason. Plus I thought Seraphim sounded extra dignified. I'll have to think of something else to call them. Thanks!

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

The only thing is, Jurassic Park isn't written from the velociraptors' POV, Also, we accept that T. Rex eats everything that moves, because she's an uberpredator. But she does not eat other T. Rexes, even in the sequel, when there are others. "Including people" includes other serpent demons, which give me major paws.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Very rarely, though-as a funeral rite or sign of domination. Or just plain desperation.

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

Well, you know how I feel about those cannibalistic protagonists :-)

I would say that "seraphim" has a stronger religious connotation. "Demon" is pretty generic in fantasy, but to me, "seraphim" puts us firmly in a Christian/angelic framework until proven otherwise. How are you using the term?

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That's one reason I thought I could get away with it. ;)

As an alternative to "angel" for just that reason, actually. Boy did that backfire! ;)

So, what else to call winged people with a healing touch... (both traits are important to the story. Heck, the "angelicness" is, but more as a Good/Evil contrast.)

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

I agree on the saraphim/demon thing. Calling someone whose culture and customs you don't understand "demons" is so common even in our own world that when someone attributes negative attributes to an entire group, it's actually *called* "demonizing." But Saraphim is pretty darn specific. Saraphim are not just angels, but a particular order of angels, from a very specific tradition. Nearly every culture in the world has some concept that corresponds to "demon."

I apologize for any typos. I don't have my glasses on, so I can't see what I've typed as well as I'd like.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Looks fine to me.

And here I thought it was a more obscure term...

[spcpthook.livejournal.com]

I have to go with the majority here. Demon doesn't bother me. Seraphim would immediately turn me off as too religious for what i enjoy reading. As for number 1. I think a lot of it would have to do on how it was handled. Does he just get hungry and eat whoever's closest or is there usually something beyond hunger that convinces him to consume his own species. I think it comes down more to whether or not his behavior has any sort of scruples or morals behind it. in other words, behavior your audience can balance the non-acceptable behavior with. If he's little more than a ravening monster then he's not likely to be an enjoyable character as a protag. Give him personality and reason your readers can identify with, or create a world where ravening is so completely acceptable that he's the good guy because on average he only eats one neighbor a month rather than three *grin* and you might have something. Anything can be done. it all comes down to how you make it acceptable.

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Serpent-demons seldom eat their own kind, unless they're starving, or in specific rituals. (think praying mantis) Anything else, though, is food, and bringing down a seraph is a status symbol.

The trouble with Malak is that he's been raised this way, but has the face of a Seraph. A main part of the story is how he learns to see others differently.

SPOILER: The sequel's based on how he's gotten himself in hot water with the demon community by starting a group that says eating "speaking things" is wrong.")

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

I mean, what spcpthook said ... for some reason, it wouldn't thread well.


"Raised that way" only works to a certain extent. Have you read The Book Thief?

[melissajm.livejournal.com]

Nope. Whose is it?

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Markus Zusak.
It's told from the POV of a little girl growing up in WWII Germany. And no, she's not Jewish. Nor a Gypsy, nor anything else but a regular German. She's in the Hitler Youth and everything. But the story, which is told by Death, is brilliant.

And you do sympathize with the girl, throughout. One of the ways Zusak accomplishes this is...


SPOILER!







she doesn't toe the line she's taught in school, or in the HY. Neither do her friends...


Point being that people can resist their programming.